Sunday, 15 May 2011

Using Ibogaine With Different Opiates

Using Ibogaine for detox from differing opiates

  • I'm writing this piece in response to questions around the suitability of Ibogaine detox from short acting opiates like heroin vs long acting like methadone and subutex.

  • I would like to make it clear that in no way am I a professional in the field, I'm writing only from my personal experience and what seems to be the general consensus from various forums and mailing lists composed of Ibogaine users and treatment providers.

My blog was recently used in a thread on the suboxone forum as evidence that Ibogaine doesn't work for long acting opiates like Suboxone or Methadone.
The person quoting me (without my permission) and also by the way had no personal experience of Ibogaine was arguing that Ibogaine has no effect on PAWS and cravings and that it only postpones the inevitable withdrawals.

It is generally accepted that Ibogaine is much more effective for treating SAO's like heroin, it's also true that most treatment centres (any that genuinely care anyway) advise people switch to a SAO for at least a month before treatment.
This doesn't mean Ibogaine does not work for LAO's like subs/methadone, because with a suitable dosage regime and some willpower from the client it can!

Dosing for detox from heroin vs methadone/subs are very different, LAO's hang around for a long time, especially if they have been used for many years.
As with any opiate detox there is no quick fix, this does not mean Ibogaine doesn't work! and it annoys me when people say otherwise.

To complicate matters, there has been many 'clinic's' popping up in Canada and Mexico offering 'instant, painless detox'. Inevitably people are going to be let down, high expectations play a big part in peoples negative views to Ibogaine. 
A lot of these 'clinic's' are run by unscrupulous providers that are looking to make a quick buck.
I've heard many horror stories about people being left under dosed, in pain and thrown out if they kick up a fuss. These providers are exploiting desperate addict's, looking for a way out.

Another problem with Ibogaine is as it is still experimental and schedule I in the U.S there isn't much research going on, and a lack of scientific evidence about it's efficacy.
No one is even sure still exactly how it works. We know it affects pretty much every system in the human body, it seems to fill opiate receptors although it is not an opiate, and it seems to empty the receptors of any existing opiates thereby having the perceived effect of 're-setting' tolerance.

I can vouch for the tolerance re-set personally, and I can also say 100% that it stops acute withdrawals by around 95% for around three days (after a full flood dose)
This, by the way is true for any opiate, methadone or heroin (I've used it for both)

The issue of PAWS is a big one, and will exist whether Ibogaine has been used or not, and this I think is the crux of this argument.
People say Ibogaine doesn't work because some people struggle with PAWS and cravings post detox.
Well of course some people will! Ibogaine or not!

There are a small majority of people that have successfully detoxed with a single flood dose and did not suffer PAWS, cravings and are still clean today.
But for most people, especially people with years of use behind them and those using LAO's boosters will be needed, and sometimes even a second flood dose.

For methadone/Subutex, after the initial 100mg 'test' dose, a flood of around 19mg/kg is given, boosters of around 400mg(TA) or 200mg(HCL) are then given as required for as long as the next two weeks!

Please do not write off Ibogaine as a treatment option simply because some people struggle afterwards... I have tried pretty much every method of detox over the years and Ibogaine is the easiest I have ever done.
Next to a traditional quick methadone reduction and cold turkey, Ibogaine is a walk in the park.

And don't take my experiences as evidence it will not work for you! 
Every one reacts differently to Ibogaine, and everybody's body is different, the speed the Ibogaine is converted, the amount's of body fat that hold LAO's longer, age (research has shown those over 30 have a higher chance of attaining abstinence) and willpower have so much to do with your chance of a successful detox that it's not sensible as simple as taking one persons word for the outcome of your treatment.

Do your homework, read the existing research papers, get medically checked before contemplating treatment and make an informed decision.


Richard said...

Informative article. My concern is what difference does switching on a SAO make before doing an ibogaine tx? does it loose those receptors? what if a user has many years of methadone or suboxone with them so what positive outcome can a short acting opiate really make? or is it simply to hold them for about a month, if thats so then what difference is a month going to make for a user whos has been taking meth or suboxone for 5 years and over? am just curious about that aspect.


Anonymous said...

I cannot quite grasp the idea of an short opiate switch from bup, what advantages does it have. As I understand a long term user of bup or even meth has lot of half life correct? so transfering to a shorter opiate for a month is not really going to be much benift is it. If it's just to hold folks until iboga then thats all it does right?

Sid said...

Well, it does make a difference believe me, maybe not a huge amount in someone that's been taking opiates full time for many years, but there is a marked difference in the intensity and length of withdrawal symtoms in someone coming straight off bup and someone coming off a SAO. The Ibo will do i'ts job whatever opiate and mask acute WD's for the first few days, problem comes where the Ibo wears off and LAO kicks back in, this is where a daily booster regieme is needed.
By switching you are giving yourself more of a chance of staying clean...
Ideally you would switch for as long as possible before Ibo treatment, but a month is better than nothing trust me!

Jane-Sanders said...


I also used iboga to detox from methadone, needless to say it did not work for me in the way I wanted it to. I weaned down the meth and then to morphine caps, that was for nearly 2 months, did the iboga and was fine for 3-4 days, took micro doses which we call boosters, that didnt last because every time the boosters wore off I felt I was in residual PAWS, you know the depression, no motivation and so on. Now am on subutex. I just plan to wean down the subbies. In my opinion and experience iboga is not a good choice for methadone or even subutex because they are very long. I did 1 flood dose and many micro doses for a month, every time after few days I would get withdrawals of some sort. I even went on morphine as suggested by my practioner and still I felt in withdrawals after iboga, well when the iboga came down. I think there is a good reason why iboga isnt live O in the UK or many civlized countries. I do think it may just be a placebo, give you a time frame but for that? for the withdrawals to hit back? I personally have not seen or met anyone who uses iboga for methadone or subutex and then stay clean for 3 months and over, all of them relapsed because of withdrawals and residual PAWS. Dont get me wrong am not knocking iboga, am only suggesting seeking alternatives routes for the long acting opiates. The iboga may do wonders for pain pills or even heroin maybe? but I really dont think its wise to waste a couple of grand coming off methadone or subutex or whatever long acting opiate. I wish it did worked for me and I could even praise it but I must be honest about this and say in my own experience it did not work how I wanted it to. I mean how long can a man or women last with having no motivation? no energy? depression? sleep issues? I wouldnt mind the mental symptoms alone but it was mental and pshycal, this after a flood dose and many boosters. I cannot do boosters for monts and months and months or more flood doses, the result and outcome will always be the same, that we must just ride it out and time is the best healer of all. I just want to wean the subbies and be done with.

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