Monday, 16 April 2012

Setting The Record Straight

Setting the record straight about Ibogaine

I feel I need to write this post, there are a lot of questions around the efficacy of Ibogaine, worries about deaths and a lot of people bash it when it doesn't work for them.

I think a lot of the time issues revolve around whether it works or not so hopefully this post will help.
Going in with high expectations is very common, and where a lot of people fall down, it's the addict mentality I think, wanting a quick fix, and when it doesn't happen people bash it, and say it doesn't work.

So here are some thoughts I hope will help:

What Ibogaine WILL do: 
  • Regarded as an 'addiction interruptor', Ibogaine WILL (in the right dosage) very successfully detox a person from opiates. Now there will be some variance between a person coming off a twenty year methadone habit Vs someone a year into dabbling with heroin, BUT there would be with any form of detox!
  • A full flood dose WILL for all intents and purposes reset opiate tolerance back to ZERO, or as good as. It's NOT a good idea to test this out! People have died from using after floods!, The reset effect, combined with Ibogaine potentiating opiates is a dangerous combination.
  • Ibogaine WILL cover acute withdrawal symptoms in most cases between 80-100% for at least twenty four hours, more commonly up to 72 hours
  • Ibogaine WILL knock you for six and you will struggle to walk/eat/sleep for a good few days
  • Ibogaine WILL get you through the majority of acute withdrawals and give you a good basis to start your recovery... Ibogaine is metabolised into Nor-Ibogaine in the liver, this is thought to hang around for a long time post flood, and is generally thought to provide the longer term effects like reduction of cravings
  • Ibogaine works on many body systems simultaneously, it is contraindicated with antidepressants and anti psychotics... It is advised to be months clear from any SSRI's before taking it
What Ibogaine WONT do:
  • Ibogaine WILL NOT (at least for the large majority of people), be a magic bullet that will 100% cover ALL your symptoms and make you never want to pick up again
  • Ibogaine WILL NOT magic away years of opiate abuse that has rewired your brains reward pathways, dopamine and serotonin levels and make you live happily ever after!
  • Ibogaine WILL NOT get rid of ALL your cravings (in 99% of people)
  • Ibogaine WILL NOT get rid of ALL your PAWS (although it can for some), Most people will find after a few days post flood they have restless legs, lethargy, slight chills and sweats etc

Now people that have taken Ibogaine expecting it to cure all their problems, have not put any work or thought into aftercare or managing cravings are the most likely to relapse.

Ibogaine is a fantastic tool for detox, and will give you a starting point to plan the rest of your life.
Aftercare, NA/AA meetings, counselling/therapy, support from clean friends and family are AS if not MORE important than the actual detox.

Ive noticed people slagging the medicine off because it 'didnt work for them' a lot recently, and in general these are people that as I have said, went in with elevated and unrealistic expectations of what Ibogaine will do for them.

Just because it didn't work for you does not mean Ibogaine is crap and won't work for other people!, I can think of plenty, thousands in fact that can vouch for that... me being one!

I relapsed because I was not ready, I was a pussy and my addict brain convinced me that I couldn't cope with the very minor PAWS.

Ive probably missed off loads but that's the gist of it!


BMelonsLemonade said...

Sid, I work as a blogger and news curator for RecoveryNowTV. I was wondering if you would mind if I reposted this??? We have had some questions about ibogaine, and I actually considered contacting you for some answers. Maybe if I post this link, some of my readers could ask you about any questions they may have about ibogaine????

Sid said...

Hey, yeah course that's fine.. if it helps!

McMillian said...

Am not bashing iboga but I think a lot has to do with the substance your currently taking. I was on methadone and after then suboxone, well subutex since am from the UK. I go off the bup for 3 weeks and in that time I used mscontin/morphine. I did my flood and though I liked the trip it didnt do much in the long term for my pshycal symptoms. I believe taking meth and bup contributed to this. I had root bark to take home with me but I had to take loads so could not afford them, I already taken them for 1 month straight and was feeling the side affects of iboga if am frank.

You must consider the substance your taking, ibogaine is not straightforward for long half life meds like it is for heroin. But this is my experience so others may have better luck.

I dont think iboga helps the depression and paws from long half life meds in the long run, you may need a lot of iboga but that can become dangerous in it self. But again I liked the trip but it didnt nothing much for my paws sadly and some acute crap.

Caroline said...

When I did the Ibogaine it helped my depression but after a while my depression from opiate related drugs came back and seemed to be worse for it. My story is about heroin and methadone. I did my Ibogaine tx twice but always relapsed. Its correct to assume Ibogaine doesn't cure post acute symptoms and also correct to assume it doesn't take away acute all the symptoms from methadone. What I felt was reality after my flood doses and no withdrawals, but after a while when Ibogaine clears your system you can feel some acute withdrawals, I think the depression is the worry because when something makes u high or blocks your depression then not taking that something makes or can make your depression more sour, thats what I realised when I did my Ibogaine treatments.. I also had micro doses but they started to work less and less each week. I do agree if your on short half life acting medicines or opiates then Ibogaine just may do the trick, but watch out for the depression when you come off Ibogaine.

Just my experience guys. Wouldnt advise or wont condemn it. I did my Ibogaine txs when I was taking both heroin and methadone.

Davy_Boy said...

Not the best experinece I had either..On meth for 4 years and then morphine and subutex for 3 months, did iboga flood and took root bark home for 3 months, only took sweating away in my opinion, well shall I Say in my experience. I did my flood at Sara Glatt's house in Amsterdam. I wont blame her for anything because she isnt a specialist in long acting opiates, so doesnt know how much flood a patient needs, her main focus is to provide for her family and take root bark on occasion, so she needs the cash, but for us vetrans of meth and whatnot we need speacial care when it comes to ibogaine or iboga. I relapsed because of this depression which does your nut in, I noticed now t they were paws, i dont think ibogaine does much for vertrans of meth and whatnot, i even had small rootbark for 3 months but still same old paws, i thougth allow it, back on meth now folks, i agree with above sentiments, do your research, look at alternatives but dotn expect ibogaine to get rid of your symptoms long term/

Sid said...

Great to hear your experiences!
I totally agree, ibogaine does struggle with long acting opiates like methadone and buprenorphine/subutex.

They hang around for a long, long time.. I did a long term methadone taper years ago, it took me 18 months.

I did it, but I became suicidally depressed and had to go on anti-depressants for a year after.

Depression is a very common symptom associated with long term opiate abuse and will be there wether you used ibogaine as a detox tool or not unfortunately!

Remember opiates re-wire the brain, after years of opiates producing seratonin and dopamine it takes a long long time for the brain to get used to making it's ownn again, and wether it will ever get back to a level it was pre-addiction is much debated.
The majority of ex addicts reporting depression as a common problem kind of speaks for itself I feel.

Gledwood said...

All right Sid, how's it going? Long time no hear. You know I'm blogging at Gledwood Volume 4 now ~ vol 2 got too unweildy with endless links and gadgets down the side, vol 3 is in German so here I am now...

I was really into trying ibogaine quite a few years ago... about 10 years ago come to think of it... I never took it then because I just couldn't find it that easily and didn't have the internet to search and was so totally wrapped up in the gear I never really bothered with anything outside my usual mono-day...

... the only thing that puts me off now is that my head cannot seem to take any mind-opening substances at all these days. And the physical incapacity it induces sounds slightly inconvenient... after you took it, did you puke? And did the hydrochloride differ from the plant material in any appreciable way? I mean, was the plant rougher than the hydrochloride powder or anything like that?

I'm down to 25mg methadone as of later this week. Wahey!

Take it easy ;-)

Richards said...

I recently took iboga in Spain with Sara Glatt and other people there. Needless to say am still struggling. I did think I was home and dry the first 2 weeks but after that I felt in withdrawals. The small Iboga given to me to take home isnt doing much am afraid to say.

I was on 30mg methadone and then I D18s that dihydrocodine, I admit I took heroin too on top to keep the methadone WDs at bay, I id this transition for about a month, that was the time I went to Spain to do Iboga. I got some weird dreams but nothing too frightening, I didnt like the noise, after when I finished Iboga I felt clear, but I could tell during the next weeks slowly the withdrawals were creeping up.

Am going to go back on methadone and do a slow taper. I think the methadone is stil in play when you do Iboga.

Susan said...

I did ibogah to get off meth but the long lasting withdrawals were too dragging,.

Sid said...

Your dose and type of opiate you take make a huge difference in your chances of a succesful detox!
As I said above!

Iboga really struggles when it comes to methadone.. it can be done, take David Graham Scott from 'detox or die' for a good example! He was taking 80mls daily I believe and got through it ok, he's still clean today too!

Gledwood: .. My honest advice? You have been diagnosed with some mental health issue havent you? Schizophrenia? ... Iboga is contr-indicated with any type of psychosis.. People have lost it taking iboga that have mental health diagnoses.

That's a flood dose though.. Iboga rootbark can be used really succesfully to reduce opiate tolerance in small doses. Rootbark in the 250-1000mg dose range, potentiates opiates AND as it competes for room in opiate receptors it is great for lowering your tolerance/habit so double bonus lol

Angelfallingintothedark said...

Hi, I just wanted to say sumhow I stumbled across yur blog nd I had to tell yu thank yu. I am on my 7 day going cold Turkey off a very large heroin habbit. I hit the "rock bottom" we all talk about nd I decided only way out was death nd it sounded great. My husband who like yur partner is a non user found me nd I was brought bak from the peace nd quiet id wanted so bad.

I have 4 kids nd from all outward appearances my life wat pretty privliged. Bit that's my husband not me. Like most everyone I know I to went thru the repeated sexual abuse by lived ones nd men alike, ended up on the streets young, worked as a stripper which led to the selling myself or trading bcz dealers here love a pretty Richy looking white girl.

But anyways im getting destracted. The last 5 outta 7 days ive used yur blog as my coping tool. When I wud feel like fuk it im done I wud start reading nd I dont kno if bcz I can relate to yu or if yur the first person I feel like relates to me bcz where im from my life is so freakin taboo. No one gets it, me, addiction. So anyways. Thank yu greatly. Yuve helped me get to day 7 nxt this is a first for me. Never made a full day b4. Yuve also inspired me to do my own blog. Getting it out hopefully helps bcz God knows I have so much inside that eats at me.

Calvin said...

About David graham Scott. First of all he has relapsed many times "after" Ibogaine. Second of all David still had bad restless legs bad for months afterwards a aswell as some withdrawals. I think the main concern is the withdrawals which come after the initial withdrawals. I honestly believe the initial withdrawals are the easy bit because you can even take a benzo or 2 to combat them other then Ibogaine, but its what comes next is the problem for many addicts, and something even like Ibogaine cannot really rectify. I have done Ibogaine before and I have taken root bark but I still had the demons and withdrawals albeit light withdrawals but they were so dragging. I also genuinely do not believe Ibogaine is the best option for addicts in terms of withdrawals and post withdrawals, if anything once that Ibogaine glow wears off your more prone to depression, mixed that with post opiate related depression and your in for a shocker, take this from my experience and Ive been around the block couple of times. No matter what the only way to go past the residual withdrawals is time, this is specially true for users of methadone and similar acting substances.

Sid said...

Yep but my point still stands, you'll most likely suffer paws however you detox. It can take years sometimes for the brain to rebalance normal endorphin production.

Iboga is not for everyone. But it's a very useful and underused/understood tool for opiate withdrawal.

David is a friend of mine, hes told me a large part of the reason he didn't relapse is because of the film. Putting it down on tape. In fact he's currently fuming the follow up to 'detox or die', called 'Iboga nights' and I'm going to be in it. He's filming me taking an Iboga flood.

I've been round the block a few times too, been to rehab more times than I care to remember. Ive tried every traditional way of detoxing out there. The only time I ever got some clean time was with a methadone taper over 18 months.
I can state categorically that Iboga is the easiest, least painful way out there of detoxing from opiates.

I relapsed because I couldn't handle the paws. But you know what?, looking back now, I would have has paws any way I had cleaned up. I should have listened and taken boosters. Unfortunately the last thing you wanna do a week after a flood and not sleeping is take more!

Iboga is no walk in the park. It takes it out of you. People liken it to recovering from a general anaesthetic. Lethargy, rls, depression, insomnia etc...

It needs a lot more investigation. Unfortunately the money just isn't there for a one time cure, big pharma like repeat, long term business, not actual cures.
So currently, studies are sporadic and few and far between.

Deborah Mash has done some great work, Dana Beal advocates ibogaine and medical marijuana (when he's not incarcerated)

I can only speak from my personal experience, so yes, its not a technical peer reviewed study, I know it took away 95% of my withdrawal symptoms, I know I got to day three and was reasonably comfortable.
I also know that after day four I started to struggle with rls and cravings, maybe if I'd been stronger I could have got through it. Who knows!

Ive spent in total, about £2,500 on it now. Which is a gel of a lot when I have little fixed income. So I believe in it enough to keep paying for it.
My next treatment is going to cost around £300, just for the medicene. But I'll pay, I know it's a way out of my daily fucking struggle to find heroin/keep well.

I'm tired of it now, I wake up and just can't be bothered any more to go get gear. Not like the old days.
I wish I didn't have to hustle money and drugs every day. I'm bored and tired of it.

Anonymous said...

davy boy, you can only speak for yourself. there are many who did came off Subutex , methadone and morphine. did not get their depression back. people wrote many testimonials after their treatment which can be

Sid said...

Hey Angel!

Sorry I meant to reply to you..
That's great my blog is helping :)

How is the detox going? Sounds like you have a lot to live for!? Four kids!? Wow!..

Yeah, writing definately helps, I probably should write posts more often, i'm a bit lazy to be honest!

Anonymous said...

what has happened to sara glatt regarding her prosecution???

anyone got any info?

Anonymous said...

David has relapsed after ibogaine, he told me.

The iboga works differently to long acting opiates, in the sense it actually doesnt work for subutex, suboxone and to some way methadone.

Sid said...

Well it depends what you mean by relapse.. He's very open about the fact he 'slipped' a couple of times, to me, a relapse is a full on, back addicted sorta thing..

He's clean of opiates now, he had a couple of days use in the past, he's no angel, he drinks occasionally etc etc.

People,seem to use this as some sort of evidence iboga doesn't work. I don't get why people are so into bashing iboga and David?!

Detox or die brought ibogaine to the attention of many people, me included!